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26 March 2007 @ 07:16 am
Type Interactions #12: INTJ-ESFJ [archived]  
While it is wonderful to sit around and discuss how amazing we INTJs are, there are other types in the world and we generally have to deal with them more than with fellow INTJs. As a result I will be making weekly posts about how INTJs interact with others to get feedback on the experiences we INTJs have had with other types and how we've learned to deal with them successfully. I'll be posting this series every Monday.

[edit: If you are responding to this post and you are not an INTJ, please identify your type. Thanks.]

Type Interactions #12: INTJ-ESFJ

According to some type articles I've read, ESFJ is the most common type for women. Given the statistics I've seen that put E and S types in the majority of the population and F as more common in women than in men, that is probably correct. However, I don't know any typed ESFJs of either gender.

Hopefully you folks have better data than I do.

What are your experiences with ESFJs? Personal? Work?
How can INTJs deal effectively with ESFJs?
What are the problem areas between INTJs and ESFJs?
What makes INTJ-ESFJ interactions/relationships worth while?


Type Interactions #1: INTJ-ISTP
Type Interactions #2: INTJ-ENFP
Type Interactions #3: INTJ-ISFJ
Type Interactions #4: INTJ-INFP
Type Interactions #5: INTJ-INTP
Type Interactions #6: INTJ-ESTJ
Type Interactions #7: INTJ-ESFP
Type Interactions #8: INTJ-INFJ
Type Interactions #9: INTJ-ENTP
Type Interactions #10: INTJ- ENTJ
Type Interactions #11: INTJ-ISTJ
Type Interactions #12: INTJ-ESFJ
Type Interactions #13: INTJ-ENFJ
Type Interactions #14: INTJ-ISFP
Type Interactions #15: INTJ-ESTP
Type Interactions #16: INTJ-INTJ
 
 
 
( 43 comments — Leave a comment )
bronxelf (The NYC Chamber of Commerce in Chucks.)bronxelf_ag001 on March 26th, 2007 11:27 am (UTC)
I have really bad experiences with ESFJs.

The less I have to do with them, the better.
seiaihero on March 26th, 2007 03:24 pm (UTC)
Amen.
contrariandoer on March 26th, 2007 01:09 pm (UTC)
It's a pain for an INTJ to listen to ESTJ's constant bitching
and talking about feelings.
seiaihero on March 26th, 2007 03:26 pm (UTC)
I was under the care of an ESFJ when I was younger.
It. Was. horrible.

Horrible enough to produce fucking PTSD.

Horrid. The less I need to interact with them the better.
bronxelf (The NYC Chamber of Commerce in Chucks.)bronxelf_ag001 on March 26th, 2007 10:57 pm (UTC)
My stepfather is an ESFJ.

All I can say to this is WORD.
seiaihero on March 26th, 2007 11:04 pm (UTC)
I personally have some impulsive traits because of what I've been through when i was a young teen, but normally when I act quickly its because I thought and processed quickly before hand. I had to learn how to do this but lord, she was ridiculous. Never gave a thought to anything and was always telling ME to think while she couldn't grasp the concept as to why I planned on getting a cat when I could move out because.. she didn't like cats.

.. Yeah. Brilliance I tell you.

I did pick up some good traits from her though. Learned how to powerfully sucker in people if I needed them for something, marketing and such. Useful there and with good intuition it can be useful to know how to extrovert your plans and idea's in order to progress but other than this. She was tragic and a mess, I pity her children and the other kids that manage to be taken under her wing. Seriously.
bronxelf (The NYC Chamber of Commerce in Chucks.)bronxelf_ag001 on March 26th, 2007 11:07 pm (UTC)
I think that I *didn't* learn to market myself well (I can market *other people/things very well- just not myself) as a reaction to him.

He's not a *bad person*. Honestly. I get on with him FINE- from 3000 miles away and having not seen him for 8 years. But that's as close as I want to get.
seiaihero on March 26th, 2007 11:16 pm (UTC)
For a long time she had this effect on me as well. Every judgment I made on a situation was shot down with some insane bullshit on how it felt wrong, or how people just don't work that way.

Like I would be very good at picking up information through observation, following what the subject of observation does after the initial action to create a chain of events and a last their ultimate goal or output. Once this was seen a few more times the conclusion was "subject starts doing this -> continues to this and ends here." this was also shot down.

I just couldn't win, she made me feel incompetent and stupid because I when young was severely cryptic and socially undeveloped.

Must mean I am stupid because I don't FEEL like looking at your face and hearing your nonsense.

I'm sure there are ESFJ's out there who can produce wonderful things but I've not ran into one just yet.
bronxelf (The NYC Chamber of Commerce in Chucks.)bronxelf_ag001 on March 26th, 2007 11:22 pm (UTC)
Also, I've found them to be fundamentally LAZY.

LAAAAAAAAAAAAAAZZZZZZZZZYYYYYY.

See my elaboration further down in comments as to the breakdown of my issues with them (aside from the lazy part, cause yeah. They all think the world is there to behave like they're fucking royalty.)
.: house making the ted facefahreeq on March 27th, 2007 12:28 am (UTC)
ESFJ laziness
I am not sure exactly what you mean by that, but I have some examples of what you might be talking about.

That odious officemate I described in another comment? She was a HUGE sympathy junkie. She would rather whine and look for sympathy than solve a problem. Like the time she turned on the "but I'm a SINGLE MOTHER" whinefest the second after she filed for divorce.

Then there's my *lovely* mother, who can't understand why I have this drive to constantly improve things. Gee, I didn't realize that I have to blindly accept what life throws my way. Then, guess who wants to live vicariously through my successes? Beeotch!

I'm not sure what type my stepdad would be (ESxP, most likely) but I don't think he has questioned one single thing he's been taught in his entire life.
bronxelf (The NYC Chamber of Commerce in Chucks.)bronxelf_ag001 on March 27th, 2007 12:32 am (UTC)
Re: ESFJ laziness
I mean "royalty syndrome".

They feel they must be catered to, at all times. HUGE entitlement issues.
Aprilonefineapril on March 26th, 2007 03:59 pm (UTC)
A close friend of mine is a typed ESFJ. We've been friends for 7 years, ever since the first day of class in freshman year of college (she was friendly enough to approach me and strike up a conversation), and even 3 years after graduating we've managed to keep in touch (largely due to her efforts to round up the old college gang at least once a year to meet up and catch up on each other).

Despite our differences in personality, we appreciate each other's decisiveness and planning skills. We both make lists and schedules, and we both had very definite ideas of what we wanted to do after graduating.
Loki: edpashketricstmr on March 26th, 2007 05:16 pm (UTC)
1 data point..
J the ESFJ--I only really know one confirmed ESFJ and she would qualify as "highly problematic" in my book. I met J a couple of years ago through a mutual friend (J was her stepsister) and J and her husband K (an INTP) were the same age as my partner and I and they also had kids, which was cool. We started hanging out together when we could--they live about 35 minutes away outside of town--which usually took the form of get togethers/parties/dinners/whatnot. As time passed, I got to know J the ESFJ better and some of her quirks came out. First, I came to see her mental health issues--J had been raped when she was 15 while passed out drunk at a party and ended up getting pregnant. She kept the baby and thus had a child by age 16. J has, in many ways, never gotten past that age emotionally. She throws fits like a teenager and has the most obvious case of displacement (where she projects all of her own negative feelings and thoughts about herself onto others and thus plays the martyr) that I have ever seen. While J can be quite generous with her house and always tries to make sure she fulfills her perception of familial and traditional obligations--she completely fails on a fundamental level to understand that many people do not see the world as she does. I would explain it as her Fe is so entirely dominant that she KNOWS what the right values are in the world and she gets upset when others don't sacrifice and martyr themselves for the idiotic causes that she thinks fulfilling will make her important, happy and good.

Additionally, I can say that her relationship with her husband K is also highly problematic. He is a very dark, twisted (in a good way), cynical, somewhat paranoid, INTP--who is quite clearly as much of a "freak" (meant in the positive way I view "freaks") as she is "normal." While she likes to step out on the "wild side" in order to be "bad/naughty"--I can tell that at the same time, she is entirely uneasy whenever she does such things..

Overall, J is not an easy person. A number of times, I and my partner have come close to just writing her off entirely because of some insane blow-up of hers about something trivial, but she always tries to make up in the end in some way...

If I had any grand observation about J, it would be that she really, truly, does not understand what she needs to do to be happy. While she thinks that if she just follows the traditions she grew up with, that everything will turn out great (kinda like she believes that "pleasantville" is possible..), when this doesn't happen, she freaks out.

J can be fun and is a decent person overall.. but I wish she would just "let go" in a Tyler Durden kinda way.

Questions:
1. Set rules, make plans, and stick to them. Acts of service make my ESFJ friend happy.. but I don't know if this would be the same for everyone else...
2. ESFJ's, in my experience, do not deal in abstractions well and they really cannot handle major "value conflicts" well at all. When arguments start, an INTJ can easily devastate their usually "weakly supported intellectually" claims and this often makes them retreat into irrational thoughts and stubbornness. This often leads nowhere and the best bet is to back off.. let things cool down and start over again.

3. Jury is still out. ESFJ's would be perfect if you needed someone to help support and produce a bake sale for some cause. My friend J is a nurse, and she is great for that job. Things that require a concerned and conscientious individual are best.

Mollywulfmadchen on March 26th, 2007 05:52 pm (UTC)
One of my best friends is a textbook ESFJ. She's very emotionally reactive, opinionated, and impulsive. "She blows hot and cold," would be a monolithic understatement. She is, for the most part, fundamentally incapable of apprehending points of view other than her own. She has no concept of "contextual appropriateness", and this very commonly gets her into trouble in interpersonal situations. Her thinking can be so ridiculously concrete and linear (and I mean ridiculous in the sense of unrealistic/illogical) that it makes my teeth hurt. She's also very loyal, generous, supportive, and creative.
bronxelf (The NYC Chamber of Commerce in Chucks.)bronxelf_ag001 on March 26th, 2007 11:05 pm (UTC)
to elaborate.
I don't get on well with ESFJs in general. I used to try. I used to shut my mouth and let them have their way because it was easier. No more. Never again.


1. SJ- "Morally Righteous". Fuck that shit.
Also, "traditional". Also, fuck that shit.

2. E- so not only do you have the SJ in there, you get someone who has to be loud about it, too. Can we say "Drama Queen"? Someone who has to be the center of attention in every room? After all, they have WISDOM to impart. They *KNOW* how everyone "should" behave. They hold court, at every gathering.

3. F- And not only do you have 1 & 2, but they aren't even basing all this morally righteous bullshit on anything involving rational thought. It's all about how they "feel" things should be. They are incapable of understanding that not everyone feels as they do, which isn't hard to understand, as they represent a good portion of the population anyway- they have no problem finding equally vocal allies as annoying as they are.

I grew up with one, and I used to be close friends with another. NEVER. Again.
seiaihero on March 26th, 2007 11:45 pm (UTC)
Re: to elaborate.
While tradition is respectable in order to progress you have to .. well.. move forward. Typical logic here.

I like E's, sometimes because when you catch me in a certain mood when I am feeling good and confident about myself and/or whatever I am doing I can be VERY Loud and Proud about it. This may also be because I am a type 8 and often very aggressively domineering. It doesn't go ON AND ON for hours however, and I don't boast to people that I know wont give a shit right? xD

Those E's that seem to figure EVERYONE must know you and worship you are aggrivating. If my few close friends and I become loud and retarded over something which I or they find exciting it happens but the rarely the desire for absolutely everyone to know is there.

A contradiction might be one of my past times which is that I am a vocalist. However when I project myself well on stage when I walk off its much less of a "LOOK AT ME, YOU SAW ME RIGHT I'M INCREDIBLE RIGHT?" and much more of a "Damn I did good." =D

Where a natural E would probably boast it around to EVERYONE and an EF would boast it to everyone AND expect everyone to give them the attention and admiration to feed their feelings rather than to feed the idea that they did good and they were successful in the end. Throw an 8 in there and you've got someone who's in your face DEMANDING you give them what they need to feel wanted and loved.


EF: I FEEL THIS RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

IP: . . . Ahem . . . moving along.
seiaihero on March 26th, 2007 11:50 pm (UTC)
Re: to elaborate.
IT^
bronxelf (The NYC Chamber of Commerce in Chucks.)bronxelf_ag001 on March 27th, 2007 12:01 am (UTC)
Re: to elaborate.
I'm an 8 too. :)

But I find that a good 75-80% of the people in my life are I's. I just can't deal with the drain of E's.
seiaihero on March 27th, 2007 12:07 am (UTC)
Re: to elaborate.
Absolutely. I don't naturally converse with any E's really. While I do have a bit of a widespread of people that I know I don't actively talk with many; instead sticking with my select few and the next outer circle of close but still just acquaintances. While E's depending on their type and how they generally are can be energizing it does get tiring quickly.

Though as INTJ's we desire MUCH more emotional and social downtime than any other type so it makes sense that when drained we would enjoy the company of either just ourselves or those few who can indulge in casual intellectual conversation.
.: merr....fahreeq on March 26th, 2007 11:12 pm (UTC)
My mom is either an ESFJ or an ENFJ. I'm not sure if her nuttiness is the dark side of ExFJ, or if it's just her.

She can't get it through her head that (GASP!) people (especially me) don't live their lives the way she thinks they should. She lives in this fantasy world of "shoulds" and it gets very tiring. Her J is even stronger than mine, which can be a plus or minus, depending on the situation. She likes guilt trips and playing the martyr, and her communication style is so annoyingly indirect....what I would express as "Please pass the butter," she expresses as "Would you LIKE to pass me the butter, if you don't MIND?"

She's one of the more annoying types of extroverts I've met. A brief visit with her makes me feel like I've had a vacuum cleaner attached to my brain. Whenever I am giving off an unhappy vibe, it triggers something in her to become even MORE oppresively chatty and cheerful, which just frustrates me further.
.: saturn devouring his sonfahreeq on March 26th, 2007 11:16 pm (UTC)
One more horror story...
I had an ex-coworker who also appeared to be an ESFJ. She and my mom are birds of a feather! She was just as annoying as my mom, plus she was even MORE hung up on bullshit social pleasantries and the indirect communication style. She was so preoccupied with seeming friendly....but I got extremely tired of having to apply the Bullshit Social Nicety Decoder to every sentence that came out of her mouth. Except I don't think her J was as strong as Mother Dear's, which meant I had to cover her ass for her quite a bit when there was a deadline.

My icon depicts how I felt about working with her. Fortunately, I got away from all that about a year ago.
seiaihero on March 26th, 2007 11:34 pm (UTC)
Re: One more horror story...
"My icon depicts how I felt about working with her. Fortunately, I got away from all that about a year ago.:

HAHAHAHA.

Choice.
bronxelf (The NYC Chamber of Commerce in Chucks.)bronxelf_ag001 on March 26th, 2007 11:25 pm (UTC)
I'd say she's an ESFJ. E*N*FJ's generally admit that "they feel x, but don't expect everyone else to feel the same way." They're more open to other ways of doing things than ESFJs are.
.: KFC hahahafahreeq on March 26th, 2007 11:46 pm (UTC)
I read your comment above, and yeah, I'd say that ESFJ sounds about right. Not only is she overly LOUD, but she just loves to evaluate everyone else. Using herself as the moral yardstick, of course. She likes to snow people into doing whatever it is she thinks they should be doing, no matter how small. Like trying to get me to paint my bedroom pink when I had *already bought* beige paint. Uh, NO. I have never met anyone so negative toward other people's life choices that have no impact on her whatsoever.

She can't wrap her head around anything off the beaten path of society, even when she gets annoyed by social customs. The funniest part is how she thinks she is so logical. HAHAHAHAHA, logic my ass!
bronxelf (The NYC Chamber of Commerce in Chucks.)bronxelf_ag001 on March 26th, 2007 11:51 pm (UTC)
I have never met anyone so negative toward other people's life choices that have no impact on her whatsoever.

YES.

Or for that matter, that they know *absolutely nothing* about. The "talking out your ass" factor.

seiaihero on March 26th, 2007 11:55 pm (UTC)
But than talking out of your ass would be such a royalty for them. The could talk twice as much.
bronxelf (The NYC Chamber of Commerce in Chucks.)bronxelf_ag001 on March 26th, 2007 11:58 pm (UTC)
No, they're already talking out their ass. If they would use their heads once in a while instead, now THAT would be a refreshing change.
Robynnecorpsefairy on March 27th, 2007 10:02 am (UTC)
Wow, I had no idea that was a trait common to ESFJs. I know one ESFJ; she regularly gets on my nerves by doing that very thing, and I thought it was just that she is immature and has low-self esteem. One way her low self-esteem manifests is that she needs to make herself look smart to other people, which she does by expounding authoritatively on subjects that she knows very little about.

I find it very annoying, especially when she is trying to direct her "knowledge" at me. It's not the arrogance that bothers me; I'm an INTJ, and I know from arrogance. It's that she has nothing to back it up. She's just doing it for show.
pixel6 on December 18th, 2009 01:40 am (UTC)
Lol.

So my girlfriend starts medical school and takes this personality profile test. Turns out she's a ESFJ. She has me take it (against my will) and come to find I'm a INTJ. So after she freaks out how accurate the test is, she wants to look up compatibility between the two. Guess which thread we end up on first?

So reading along, she's getting all bitter and pretty much hates everyone here. We get to the "talking out of your ass would be such a royalty for them" bit... and I lose it.

I haven't laughed that hard in years. LOL

She then starts trying to beat me up, and didn't like the fact that I found this so funny...

But yeah, had to create an account and give my warmest regards.

I didn't know there was a term for me... =]

- Pixel -
seiaihero on March 27th, 2007 12:00 am (UTC)
I love how it feels like you should be in extreme sports when you bring up the possibility that somewhere out there some other information source just might disagree with their ideal's that everyone works EXACTLY how they do.

The idea is just so mind boggling they have to bombard you with "logical" I feel bullshits IN YOUR FACE two inches from your ear with a megaphone JUST in case you're going deaf a little and cannot properly hear their pompous bullshit.
.: house making the ted facefahreeq on March 27th, 2007 10:57 am (UTC)
That's why I hardly bother visiting family. I can keep my mouth shut, and Mother Dear will continue to live in her fantasy world. Or, I can speak up only to get shot down with what she considers "but this is how I feel RAAAAAAR" logic. (logic? HA) The end result? I'll end up frustrated, and she'll still live in her fantasy world. She's not one to let facts and logic get in the way of her ideas.
seiaihero on March 27th, 2007 12:44 pm (UTC)
"I'll end up frustrated, and she'll still live in her fantasy world. She's not one to let facts and logic get in the way of her ideas."

Mhm. Its even worse when (as for all f's really) your feeling preference is so low and undeveloped that they make you feel useless, stupid and incompetent because YOU can't understand THEIR world and FEEL EXACTLY how they do about it.
Loki: zoraktricstmr on March 27th, 2007 08:43 pm (UTC)
disagree...
My experiences with ENFJ is at least as bad, if not much worse, than with any ESFJ...

They can be just as domineering--and what is worse--because they are N's.. they will pull the same kind of "I'm right because I feel I am right" not just with concrete traditional bullshit.. but with more abstract ideas and intellectual arguments..

My Mom--an ENFJ who thinks she is an ENTJ--is my classic example of this.. but an ex girlfriend of five years, and a major old acquaintance of my SO and a number of other people I knew were ENFJ's all demonstrated this domineering attitude..

icky icky icky.. and as you can see.. I have much to vent about for next week... ;)
verity kindle: yay ravenclaw!yaysunshine on March 27th, 2007 12:18 am (UTC)
I have a close friend who is a typed ESFJ. While I do appreciate her very much because she's very involved in her friendships and is a nice person, she can also very, very much grate on my nerves. She's very emotional, opinionated, moody, and dramatic. Sometimes, however, coping involves smiling, nodding, and running away very fast. I adore her (most of the time) but... well.
The perils of being in 3-D...: Stressadianavy on March 27th, 2007 12:30 pm (UTC)
I have a friend I suspect to be either ESFJ or ESFP (she does have a tendency to be very messy, late, etc...) and sometimes it's a nightmare to deal with her. she's very stuck in her ways and heaven forbid if you bring out a new way of thinking or state a fact that's contrary to her beliefs.

She bitches about people cutting her off in traffic while she does it all the time. She whines about how she has to have a laptop to surf from bed when her bed is less than four feet from her desk. And if she doesn't get what she wants (and of course she doesn't tell you what she wants because she expects you to already know), it's a huge civil injustice.

Then again she can be sweet and dependable from time to time.

I just pick my battles and shut my mouth. Makes it a little easier to deal with that type in general.



John Jacob Jingleheimer Schmidt7ofclubs on April 4th, 2007 02:23 pm (UTC)
Somehow I am an ESFJ magnet :(

My mother was one, my partner of 23 years is one (no jokes about marrying my mother, please--in fact, my mother and I never really got along, as you can imagine). My dad (ESTP) remarried within a year of my mother's death, and my stepmother is an ESFJ as well.

I really wonder how I managed not only to ever become partnered with one in the first place, but how we've kept it going all this time! I guess "opposites attract", but that's not to say there isn't plenty of friction and not understanding each other! OTOH, our almost completely different interests mean we do complement each other well. I can do all of his computer stuff while he tends to most of the house- and yard-keeping; I make online reservations whenever we travel, while he calls up and screams at the cable company when such is needed.

It's not easy, and if I had it to do over again, I think I'd choose at least an N, but here we still are...

the Pet Nursefitgurl71 on August 8th, 2007 06:05 pm (UTC)
Oh.my.god. Now I'm scared. I just became friends with an ESFJ. I barely know her. We are going to dinner next Monday. I'll make sure I take copious notes. So far, she talks your ear off, but she is direct (which I like) and surprisingly easy going. So maybe she is not your typical ESFJ.
Miss_Headstrongbabybeeotch on August 12th, 2008 07:50 am (UTC)
Ok now i have an urge to write what i personally have delt with lately.I am an INTJ,i just started "dating" a full blown ESFJ.
And where do i even begin to write all the things that...irk me about it...
Well first i will note,they are so...giddy.I just want to magically zap popcorn in my lap and dim the lights..its like being IN the matinée!Then theres the assuming of things,i cant stand when i say something and he assumes i somehow said something totally different,comes up with some unlogical reply that makes no sense to what i said,and then when i waste the time to go back and fix the problem...i hate misunderstandings..its disorder.and his only reply is the dreding..enfuriating.."Ooooooh".>_<.
I mean im quite sure there is infact a working brain in there...somewhere!But i dont really ever see it.
Next he is VERY touchy-feely.Cuddles and hugs and shit.I am only like that when the mood strikes me,he however seems to ALWAYS be like that.Gogo baby talk,wants to ask a billion questions about MY feelings.After about like 10 questions,im annoyed.I say no more questions,and about 3 mins later a question comes out his mouth.I will note he is a pervert,very sexual.always wants sex,but i contribute that to him being a guy and touchy feely.

All that really bothers me,and intellectual conversations!?!Ha!!!Not even in my wildest dreams would he even conjure up the muster to attempt at something witty.

Even still "SOMETHING" about him keeps me curious,i dont know why the hell i keep him around but i do.theres something there,though i have no clue what.

Is this an odd conjunction,or am i just babbling :p?
hambros1 on November 20th, 2009 07:06 pm (UTC)
INTJ-ESFJ
OK, maybe this is tecnically a biased Myers Briggs evaluation for someone, but if the results were double blind surveys, I would be more than willing to bet a months wages on it.
I took the MBTI for a family member (ex family member really), my ex-sister in law. I do like her because of all of the neat ideas she comes up with, that I compare to facts/data and see what the validity is in her arguments.

Her MBTI based on MY answers is ESFJ, bare in mind that I am INTJ with a very low J score, ANYHOO-based on this TYPE that I choose, either:

1) ESFJ's are persons which I will view as irrational, and people I see as irrational are immediatly catagorized ESFJ.

2) I hit the nail squarly on the head when I answered the questions for her MBTI.

I have known her for 18 years and I tried to answer questions based on what " I have witnessed ". Her score is obviously biased by my opinion, but after reading your posts, I said to myself " My god were these guys hiding in the bushes when I am around her? "

She is IMPOSSIBLE, she swears that " The Government is out get her", complete us/them logic based arguments. She has the gall to completely discredits any proof that is against any argument she has, Global Warming, Social Euthanasia, yadda yadda... Basically in a nut shell there is this single entity called " THE GOVERNMENT" and its goal and purpose in life is to destroy anything that is in opposition.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm, can you say PARANOID. I try to show her the evidance that really exists, from reputable sources. " THEY WORK FOR THE GOVERNMENT, so the data is not accurate " is her response.
Well I say, isn't everyone different, and think differently? Don't PEOPLE work for the fovernment? Doesn't this imply that the government cannot be a single minded entity?

They Lie, is her response. She asked me to watch a video she had, that in her words was " The Truth". I will say in hindsite it was rude of me to speak out and laugh like I did during the video, and for that I will learn to bite my tongue from now on. I am NOT sorry for FEELING that way, I even asked in seriousness if this was a comedy, after the whole " this is the TRUTH " schpeal.
She is like this and thats the way she is, but I am glad to come here and see that others share the same feelings, and Logic, as I do.

If I am wrong, show me proof, this means DATA, NOT OPINION, NOT INTERPRETTED DATA, RAW DATA. I will ALWAYS do the same for conclusions I come to. I will SHOW you the DATA, most of the time I find it in nature, and yes I use the natural world to support my arguments. If I can see it taste it smell it, then it is DATA, if it is BIASED DATA, well then I guess all I have to do is consider the source.

baltoexec on March 22nd, 2010 02:47 pm (UTC)
Wow...what an eye opener this thread was...
Holy Smokes...

Ok, INTJ here, been married to an ESFJ for close to 18 years now, and I have to say that this thread makes a lot of things MAKE SENSE for a change! I love my wife as a human being so much...she is truly all of the great things that the provider type can be, but oh my GOD she can make me crazy...

Honestly, I'm just fine with her, I just wish she was ok with me! I don't care what she does, where she goes, who she hangs out with, what she spends, blah blah blah..and all I really want is that same acceptance and freedom extended to me. Ummm...yeah...not going to happen.

She is truly an amazing and wonderful mother to our two fantastic kids (daughter 14 and son 12), and I am not looking for reasons to leave, I'm just looking for ways to make the time pass with a little more acceptance and a lot more peace...

I know this is an old thread, but because of some recent 'issues'...which are really the same old issues (not affectionate enough..."when can we just sit and gaze into each others eyes and reconnect...?") Yikes...I want to jump off a cliff sometimes...

I seem to have found a place where people might be able to feel my pain.
ext_311855 on November 6th, 2010 06:25 pm (UTC)
LOL'd
Hi guys, I'm an ESFJ woman who loved reading all of your posts. I don't think I've laughed so much in a long time. A lot of your descriptions sound a lot like me, although hopefully I'm not THAT bad ;) I've recently started dating an INTJ & he insisted I do the test & then we stumbled upon this page & I read it 2 him. I'm happy 2 report that he hasn't run screaming 4 the hills yet ;)

I'll keep you posted ;)
Ms. Danson: Coffee Bearms_danson on November 7th, 2012 03:18 pm (UTC)
Test of notification (off) for comments.
Michele AndresonMichele Andreson on May 24th, 2013 05:40 pm (UTC)
Okay, then.
I'm definitely an ESFJ female, type 8, married to an INFP, type 6. And we've been happily married for 16+ years.
A lot of you seem to be describing very immature ESFJs. They sound like 8 year olds that need a good spanking. I would agree, ANY type can be annoying, when the person is immature and inflexible. I think the goal of learning your personality is to strengthen your natural weaknesses while using your natural strengths for positive change. The longer my husband and I are together, the more we become similar. He's becoming more outgoing, while I'm learning to tone it down. I've learned how to gently coax information out of him, while he's getting better at offering it. Yes, our TYPES are very different, but that's the point of a relationship--letting another person help you become an even BETTER person. It's a two-way street, too. It's not just with these two personalities, it's with EVERY personality. Some things are the same, some things are different. Those similarities help you bond, the differences help you grow.
It sounds like most of you have a bit of growing up to do, as well. I'm guessing that's your 'J' coming out, though. Be a bit less quick to judge and look for the deeper, underlying issue. Add some compassion, as well.

Eye-opening, definitely. I have a fabulous husband.
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