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07 April 2007 @ 12:06 pm
INTJ and Dating  
I was just wondering if any INTJ's have problems with dating.  I've been successful in my career as a INTJ, but not in dating.  I'm in my early 30's and I'm frustrated b/c my friends have gotten married and I've had no luck.    I have trouble meeting women in the first place and my relationships usually last only 1 or 2 dates.  I've had several serious relationships, but they were many years ago.  I think the problem I have is with the whole small talk/flirting thing.  I basically don't do well with small talk and flirting, but I am fine with just regular conversation about things I'm interested in.  Usually the relationship ends with the woman saying she thought I was a nice guy, but no spark there.  As a INTJ, I take a while to warm up to a person and feel comfortable enough to show my feelings.  Also, the only luck I have meeting women is through online dating, where have other INTJ's been successful meeting women?
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Mollywulfmadchen on April 7th, 2007 04:17 pm (UTC)
The party line for how INTJs can bypass annoying things like small-talk and meet similar-minded people goes something like this:
Take something that you really enjoy and find a way to do it socially. Look for related social organizations in your area (Meetup.com is great for this sort of thing), go to conferences or lectures on subjects that interest you, and things like that. Having a shared interest means that there's less of a need for arbitrary, proscribed social ritualising.

I don't know how successful people have found this to be overall, but it's definitely worked for me, and I figure that even if you aren't successful at finding a mate, at least you're still doing something you enjoy rather than haunting singles bars or clubs and being uncomfortable/unhappy.
Stephensamhaine on April 7th, 2007 05:05 pm (UTC)
In my experience, INTJs are likely to play our cards close to the chest, emotion-wise. Long-term acquaintances may see us open up more, or at least get better at reading subtle cues, but new people find us more difficult to read than an average individual. This tends to lead, again IME, to not doing well at the expected "opening up" part of the dating process; the other person, with no gauge to how to get a good read, assesses disinterest and gives up.

My best relationships have been with women that I've managed to hang out with extensively enough that I'm more comfortable with them and they begin to get an idea that their initial perceptions aren't an accurate gauge. Dating "cold" never works out. As wulfmadchen points out, if you don't have any potential matches within your existing social circle, it's probably worthwhile to try to integrate into another circle based on a subject you're interested in. Not only will it give you something to talk about with potential dates, it will also give you an excuse to spend enough time to get comfortable with them before things go into romance mode.

If you're stuck with a "cold" first date, it may work out better to go against your instincts and emote more. If it's possible to work it into the conversation, verbalize routinely that things are going well; e.g., "I'm having a great time," "this sure is fun," "thanks for a great evening." The goal is to try to shoot down the perception of disinterest that your date is liable to be getting.
Katie the Blue Kitten: Rent a homosexualkatayla on April 7th, 2007 05:09 pm (UTC)
I don't date. I'd much rather have a relationship develop out of friendship . . . of course, for that to happen, I need to get better at developing friendships. :)
dark_ranger on April 7th, 2007 05:18 pm (UTC)
This is exactly how I feel.... and do.
Ms. Purrmeowmspurrmeow on April 7th, 2007 05:26 pm (UTC)
I don't "date", never have. One relationship I have, he observed me from afar and just asked me out. We were married six months later. The other relationships I've met online or from ending up together in mutual-interest activities. I have two multi-decade relationships, and have had two that were long-term and close, but not permanent. (I'm poly-fi)

I don't do small-talk, but I do do topic-talk. Going to conferences and SMALL conventions works well for me. Volunteering to be on staff helps, too since it brings up instances where I end up next to people with a topic on the table.

On the emotion topic, we tend to play them close to our chest, but PLEASE don't forget to touch people when the time is right. Simple physical contact (as hard as it can be) is one cue that can start things rolling more our direction than anything else. I'm not talking about the major stuff, just a touch on the elbow or shoulder. It's not much, but it's enough to break that ice sometimes.

For me, friendships are harder than family-oriented-relationships. They need a lot of small-talk and irrelevant face noises. I'm a good 'silent-friend'. We can do relevant stuff together, and I'm there in a flash when they need me, but 'hanging out' or chattering for a few hours is not for me.



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Sat-Isis/Suten Net: Maria Callascassiopaya on April 8th, 2007 04:41 am (UTC)
As a female INTJ I can totally bear witness to the INTJ-obsessed population. It is ubiquitous for me to come across men and boys who consistently fall for me even though I give them no provocation, no flirting or small talk, and no inclinations on being interested in mate selection or dating at all. I really can't explain it other than, "They must like the way I smell." ^_^
Robynnecorpsefairy on April 8th, 2007 04:10 pm (UTC)
I get that too. Baffling.
seiaihero on April 7th, 2007 05:55 pm (UTC)
I have not been successful in the least.

It takes me forever to trust and feel comfortable around someone and my feeling preference is incredibly low. Also, I have many personal problems that need to be addressed and taken care of before I can even bother to consider such a thing.

All of my relationships turn bad, I tend to attract the feelers that are wounded and looking for a reason to feel the way they feel. I've heard the "I started going out with you because I knew you'd hurt me" line a lot. Its my emotional understanding that causes a lot of trouble.
sophiedophsophiedoph on April 7th, 2007 07:46 pm (UTC)
Also, I have many personal problems that need to be addressed and taken care of before I can even bother to consider such a thing.


I think it's good that you recognize this. I know several INs who need(ed) to work through things, and are having difficulties now that they are married/in a committed relationship.

The ones, my dh included, who went out and sought help (be it medication for anxiety or psychotherapy) are much happier and the better off for it. (I've done the same as well--my background was screwed up too.)
sophiedophsophiedoph on April 7th, 2007 07:44 pm (UTC)
My husband (INTJ) didn't date much (or really at all) until he met me. He was 24.5 at the time. He has a hard time being around people and such, but we kind of clicked at first site.

Oddly, we were both internet nerds, but met at the gym through a mutual friend who dragged us both there. My husband is such a nice (devoted, caring, eccentric) guy all my single friends (INFs for the most part) want to know where to meet INTJs. There should be an MBTI hook-up online.

Other INTs I know who found love did so at D&D/RPG groups, anime meetups, Ren groups... Try to find some local groups with others who have similar quirky interests (if you do have any). You can get comfortable with a group and meet others that way.

~S, INFJ
Mollywulfmadchen on April 8th, 2007 04:37 am (UTC)
There should be an MBTI hook-up online.

That would be Typetango.com. I haven't personally used it, so I can't say anything for its efficacy, but it does exist.
The nut of the worldtampakittie on April 8th, 2007 12:34 am (UTC)
I have no problem getting dates if I want them. But I don't. :)
ex_greymaide85 on April 8th, 2007 12:54 am (UTC)
I have never had a problem getting dates or finding relationships, but then, I'm an INTJ female, so maybe it's different. I'm also bisexual and polyamorous, so YMMV.

My problem with relationships comes a few months later, when I stop respecting the people I'm dating because they are flawed and irrational.

My advice is the exact opposite of everyone else's: Embrace your natural INTJ arrogance and smartassness. You are brilliant. You are sucessful. You are snarky and witty. When she says "Where do you want to go to dinner?" you already have that decision made. When she says "Do you like country music?" you say "No, I can't stand that crap." When she says "Do these jeans make my ass look fat?" you say "I'm not sure, take them off and let me compare."

It seems to me that the vast majority of INTJs have problems dating because they feel they tehmselves are somehow unacceptable and need to change their behaviors, then they get nervous and awkward.

I'm not talking about being "that asshole guy" who always gets the chicks instead of you. I'm talking about being yourself. INTJs are incredibly alluring when they learn to develop their best traits. Women like a man who can make a damn decision! So you're at dinner having some boring conversation and you don't think thigns are going well? Say "This date is going a little slow. Let's go play Laser Tag instead."

You get the idea. Don't try to be less INTJ, be MORE.
Shannonshe_evolves on April 8th, 2007 03:00 am (UTC)
My problem with relationships comes a few months later, when I stop respecting the people I'm dating because they are flawed and irrational.

I think that's part of what prevents me from starting meaningful relationships with people in the first place - my standards are so high and specific.

Embrace your natural INTJ arrogance and smartassness. You are brilliant. You are sucessful. You are snarky and witty.

;)
The perils of being in 3-D...: *Sigh*adianavy on April 8th, 2007 04:28 am (UTC)
You've nailed it exactly. I get accused of trying to hard to get people to like me because of what I've been told is acceptable and trying to be that - Apparently I've been "programmed" to empathize with everyone too much instead of trusting my gut instincts and finding out where the boundaries are before I make an approach.
Sat-Isis/Suten Net: Maria Callascassiopaya on April 8th, 2007 04:51 am (UTC)
I have the tendency to unload all my bad shit on somebody right in the beginning and if they can't handle it, then I'm able to sever the relationship before I get emotionally involved and waste my time and end up getting hurt. I'm told I shouldn't do it, but I like my way better; wasting time and emotion on a weakling who will only reject me when the skeletons come out of the closet just doesn't make sense to me. I'm like a Cadbury Cream Egg - hard chocolate shell - soft vanilla cream inside; I'm one of those INTJs with hyper-sensitive emotions who uses INTJ awesomeness as a shield against people.

...did I just compare myself to Easter candy? Yes. Yes, I did.
attackpenguinattackpenguin on April 8th, 2007 01:19 am (UTC)
I had a similar issue and in true INTJ fashion I decided to train my mind on the issue, do some reading and fix the problem. Yah, you might feel silly going on to dating help sites and mailers but I can tell you, after a month or so of reading voraciously, I was able to start changing things around.

I think I started here:

http://www.askmen.com/dating/

and googled around for a few similar sites but they all say pretty similar things.

With that said, I still didn't have much luck on dating sites. Partially because I don't think I have the situation a real chance and partially because there was slim pickings ;-)
Dr. (Sir) Nicodemus Fleming: Nero Wolfenapoleonofcrime on April 8th, 2007 02:54 am (UTC)
My problem has traditionally been picking up on the "signals" that indicate a woman is interested in me socially. I don't flirt, but I banter, and I've been told it's essentially the same thing.

You may have many potential dates and just not recognize them.
undecidedmirrorundecidedmirror on April 8th, 2007 08:33 pm (UTC)
gah...is it all INTJs?
haha...that sounds familiar. I'm horrible at picking up "signals"


Much more prefer honesty.
Dr. (Sir) Nicodemus Fleming: Nero Wolfenapoleonofcrime on April 9th, 2007 01:14 am (UTC)
Well, I wouldn't say the women in question were being duplicitous. They just use a language with which I'm unfamiliar, to "feel out" a response. They're afraid of rejection, too, after all.
undecidedmirrorundecidedmirror on April 9th, 2007 01:42 am (UTC)
heh, aren't we all?

well...maybe not, as a woman I certainly am.
the_whistler36 on July 30th, 2008 04:27 am (UTC)
Missing The Signals
Some of my closer associates who know me fairly well are always telling me that someone was "totally flirting with [me]" and I am forever clueless. And when I think I have read the signal right, I am politely shot down. It is very frustrating.
Mellyamellyjc on April 8th, 2007 08:05 am (UTC)
I was never asked out until I was 18, and only by people I had met online.

When I met my husband (of two weeks now, wee!) it was online. We began talking on the phone casually and it developed into friendship, dateship, cohabitation, and now marriage.

My guess is the problem of expectations...with internet dating sites people are looking with specific intentions and are quick to judge. My hubby and I were both afraid of dating at first, and I think it worked because we started as friends. No expectations, therefore no disappointment.
Xan: englishspiritonparole on April 8th, 2007 02:40 pm (UTC)
I met my husband in the most unlikely of places: a party for a mutual friend. Granted, it was a smallish, intimate party--a bunch of intellectuals and our friends from around town. My husband said he felt an instant attraction to me when he shook my hand. I definitely got a frisson the first time our eyes met, but I'd say the attraction became evident after we'd talked for a few minutes. He was very forthright about his attraction to me, asking for my phone number before I'd even finished getting ready to leave, so I took his in return. Deciding that there was no point in mulling it over, I actually wound up calling him the next day, and the rest is history.

We definitely did not start out as friends; our attraction was so strong and obvious that we were joined at the hip from the moment we met. There was no second-guessing or deliberating. We hashed out what we were interested in doing with our lives and found we had a lot of similar goals and priorities, moved in together after a while, discussed the pros and cons of getting married, and got married a couple of years later.

That said, we do have a "friendly" relationship: we can bust on each other and do activities together and enjoy just being with one another instead of worrying constantly about all that silly romance nonsense. We do romantic things for one another occasionally, but there's no sense of obligation or stress. We're very comfortable with one another, as you should be if you're going to spend your life with a person.

I had a lot of relationships before I met my husband, most of them good. I met my partners in a variety of settings: high school, university classes, university extracurriculars, casual parties, black-tie galas, even online once. I can't advise any particular setting as being optimal for meeting people; however, I can play Captain Obvious here and say that the more social activities you do (especially directed social activities that address a major interest of yours) the greater your likelihood of meeting someone with whom you connect.

I don't mind introductory small talk as long as it progresses to something more substantive within a few minutes. Socially, small talk is a means to an end, and mastering this art allows a person to enjoy his/her social experiences more. Maybe that's easy for me to say since I'm just barely an Introvert, but I think it holds true for all people.
undecidedmirrorundecidedmirror on April 8th, 2007 08:30 pm (UTC)
I was just wondering if any INTJ's have problems with dating.

Understatement of the year. In one word, yes.

My biggest thing is that I like other INTJ's. It seems most male INTJ's that I know aren't attracted to female INTJ's...not to mention how few INTJ's I know. It's rare I find a guy that I'm truly attracted to in the first place.
Princess of the Nightnight_princess on April 8th, 2007 10:57 pm (UTC)
> I was just wondering if any INTJ's have problems with dating.

Nope. No dating = no problems.
Λżяæľdivinejustice on April 9th, 2007 05:09 am (UTC)
Yeah, if you don't flirt a little bit it's doomed.

And I see a few people here saying they aren't good at picking up on signals? I'm like supernaturally good at that. The only problem is what do I do with it? Usually, the connection just isn't really there so I do nothing. When it is, I can tend to be nervous but I make sure it happens.
Benhslayer on April 9th, 2007 01:26 pm (UTC)
Yeah, I can't stand dating. I've never had a casual relationship with anyone. Only long-term relationships that started as friendships. (This latest of which is now an engagement.) I spent plenty of years thinking I'd be single and lonely forever, too, so I can't really advise any more than what people already have - go out and do social things that you honestly enjoy, where you'll be comfortable, and you'll probably have the best chance at getting something going there. (I met my fiancee, who'd just been a friend of a friend, when she joined our weekly Dungeons & Dragons game, so you never know where love will strike.)
xtremegeekxtremegeek on April 12th, 2007 05:01 pm (UTC)
INTJs and dating
Until very recently, I was dating an INTJ. We met while doing some volunteer work.

We carried on for a year. I wish he would have asked me to marry him. I did/do love him. But instead, he wanted to drag on with a long distance relationship...expecting us to get together every two weeks, which was a commitment I couldn't make (he in MS, me in MD.) I could tell that my decision deeply wounded him, which I didn't want to do. I feel bad that I did not understand all of his INTJness, but eventhough I didn't always understand him, I knew he was a special person.
Princess of the Nightnight_princess on April 14th, 2007 12:34 pm (UTC)
Re: INTJs and dating
> I feel bad that I did not understand all of his INTJness

I think I missed something. What type are you? (I apologize if you mentioned it before. I have a very leaky memory.)
xtremegeekxtremegeek on April 14th, 2007 12:49 pm (UTC)
Re: INTJs and dating
My apologies, I didn't post it. I am a female ISTJ (sometimes border on N.)
Princess of the Nightnight_princess on April 15th, 2007 12:48 pm (UTC)
Re: INTJs and dating
Ah, OK. Thanks for the clarification.

Type aside, I find your comment very puzzling; the juxtaposition between wishing for marriage and not even being willing to make the time to get together every two weeks seems odd to me. Would things have been different if he had asked you to marry him? If so, how? From my point of view, marriage doesn't fundamentally change anything, so you still would've been too busy with your MD, the breakup would've still happened, and therefore, he did the right thing.
xtremegeekxtremegeek on April 15th, 2007 04:38 pm (UTC)
Re: INTJs and dating
MD = Maryland
MS = Mississippi
He did not break up with me, I broke up with him.
We've known each other for 18 months. I am of the opinion that we are old enough to know after 18 months whether we want to marry each other. Had we gotten married, I would have relocated and started a job where he lives. But I am not willing to continue the every-other-weekend travel schedule, indefinitely. Nor will I relocate simply to date someone, there has to be a greater commitment to the relationship than simply dating.
Princess of the Nightnight_princess on April 15th, 2007 07:01 pm (UTC)
Re: INTJs and dating
> MD = Maryland
MS = Mississippi


LOL! OK, that makes a lot more sense. I wonder why my brain picked the other acronyms. Silly brain.
firstohit on November 27th, 2009 01:03 pm (UTC)
Re: INTJs and dating
well, I got lost here too. I was thinking something else MS=masters degree, MD=medical degree.
torbecire on June 25th, 2007 04:23 pm (UTC)
Getting dates
As a man, i have no problems getting girls to go out with me. The problem is that if i do not get to know them, it ends up sucking. The thing i have found the works for me is if i like a girl, i try to be her friend then eventually ask her out. My best relationships have worked out that way. I believe any INTJ, can get any girl, but getting into a deep conversation takes time. Small talks suck. It doesn't matter to me how beautiful the girl is, if we can't talk pretty boring relationship.
firstohit on November 27th, 2009 01:13 pm (UTC)
Dating
I read the entire page and I don't usually read much of this crap, but I wanted to see where it goes. I am an INTJ. I am also desperate to make friends, dating or not. I have never actually dated anyone. The first meeting I had with a woman I married her. She told me that she loved me and I was learning from her things, so I felt obligated to marry her, I knew love would come afterward and I do love her. Love=relative term that I hate very much. She is an ENFJ. She is also older than me by a decade+. Well, I guess she had life experiences that I connected with. I have met many women in college but somehow I always find faults in them. I was told to accept people and not judge them. Well its hard but its true. I am so lonesome I don't even have many friends. I feel pathetic socializing. I am attracted to model type girls but when I meet them I feel pathetic. Is it my eyes fooling me, or is it something else that I am seeking?
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